Richard Bejtlich, on President Obama’s interview on Charlie Rose:
This is an amazing development for someone aware of the history of this issue. President Obama is exactly right concerning the differences between espionage, practiced by all nations since the beginning of time, and massive industrial theft by China against the developed world, which the United States, at least, will not tolerate.
Obama’s money quote:
Every country in the world, large and small, engages in intelligence gathering and that is an occasional source of tension but is generally practiced within bounds. There is a big difference between China wanting to figure out how can they find out what my talking points are when I’m meeting with the Japanese which is standard fare and we’ve tried to prevent them from – penetrating that and they try to get that information. There’s a big difference between that and a hacker directly connected with the Chinese government or the Chinese military breaking into Apple’s software systems to see if they can obtain the designs for the latest Apple product. That’s theft. And we can’t tolerate that.
I think a key issue here is whether China recognizes and understands the difference. Culturally, I’m not so sure, and I believe that’s one reason this continues to escalate.
Reader interactions
4 Replies to “How China Is Different”
Rich,
You’re 100% correct. The sad part is that all the pundits in the U.S don’t care about the cultural differences between China and the US. If any of them would take a day or 2 to read up on Chinese history and culture they would realize that the Chinese have been doing this for 1000’s of years. There are specific cultural principles one should learn to understand.
The principles of 内 (nei) and 外 (wai) are, in my opinion the keys to unraveling this story. Unfortunately there are very few documents that explain the principles in succint detail.
Yes, government spying for corporate gain is different. On the other hand, major Chinese corporations are much more tightly entwined with their government than US corporations.
But why is that distinction a bright line? Because Western nations have made that policy long enough for it to be tradition? I don’t think the Chinese government cares about that political tradition. I think it’s an important one but that doesn’t make any difference to them either.
“the practice of spying or using spies to obtain information about the plans and activities especially of a foreign government or a competing company”
I was going to initially correct you in this statement, since from a western mindset a government is not competing with a company, but realized in the case of China (and many other economies) I would be wrong. China, the government, is heavily invested in their market, with much blurrier lines between what is public and what is private than most of us are accustomed to in the US. I think the question isn’t whether China understands the difference, but whether there actually *is* a difference for them.
Regardless, Obama is only correct in his statement if we talk about this snapshot in time. The US stole every damn idea we could from Europe (and particularly England) during the Industrial Revolution. Industrial espionage BUILT this country, and that espionage was not limited to private entities. Similarly, a whole lot of our advancements post-war happened directly from operation paperclip where we “recruited” as many intellects from Axis territory as possible and were not shy about allowing our private companies to profit from their contributions.
Definition of ESPIONAGE
: the practice of spying or using spies to obtain information about the plans and activities especially of a foreign government or a competing company